How Do You Reclaim the Mother from Psycho? 

Photo: 2016 A&E Television Networks, LLC/Getty Images

ends its five-season run tonight, bringing us back to where it all began: with Norman Bates as a mild-mannered

and his mother, formerly known only as “mother,” as a stuffed corpse. In the imaginations of Kerry Ehrin (the show’s co-creator, along with Carlton Cuse) and star Vera Farmiga, Norman’s mother and evil alter-id, came to life as Norma, a flesh-and-blood woman with a traumatic past and a complicated emotional life. Ehrin and Farmiga collaborated closely to ground the character in reality – far away from either idealized motherhood or Norman’s sick projections of her – by rooting the character in their own lived experiences.

The Cut spoke to Ehrin and Farmiga about what they’ll miss when they check out of

Kerry: I think I saw it at my boyfriend’s in college. I’m not a horror person in general but what I love about Psycho is that it’s so much more about suspense and psychology.

Vera: I remember thinking that what was so special about it was that it was a story about a psychopath who was very charming. I think that was most impactful for me.

What were your first impressions about “mother?”

Vera: I automatically assumed she was a negative influence on Norman’s life, because all we see of her is through his fractured psyche. There’s an assumption that she’s evil.

Kerry: When my partner on this project, Carlton Cuse, and I started working on it, it was very important to think about who the mother was. I had to remind many, many people involved the project that [the story] is told through the lens of a crazy guy. We don’t know anything about her! Maybe he was really mad at his mom!

Was part of the appeal of doing it that you had a chance to reclaim her?

Kerry: It’s interesting in a world that has historically been defined by men, even on the page, to say, OK, this woman was blamed for everything that was wrong with this guy. Let’s take a look at that. Let’s take a look at who she was as a whole person. The other thing that really drew me into it was my relationship to my own children and my relationship with my mother. I absolutely adored my mother and would have done anything for her. She was my rock in a kind of chaotic childhood sometimes, and I also completely understood, especially because my children were little and I would have done anything to make them stay, not grow up.

Vera: The north star of the story that we were going to tell was that it was a love story between a mother and son, and about that umbilical cord unraveling and eventually potentially severing.

Vera: It was so apparent that as female characterizations go, this was a head-turner–everything I wanted to see and to explore. Norma was error-prone, she was fallible, but I found her so adorable. In three pages, I could see her assertiveness, her strength, her bravery, her sass, but most of all, for me, that indomitable will to persevere. Kerry had presented me with three episodes and I could tell by page three that this was Medea meets Lucille Ball.

Were you reclaiming the trope of the “bad mother” in some way?

Kerry: I wanted to kick the “bad mother” across the football field. I wanted to defend the mother and to defend being a woman in this world. I wanted to portray the vulnerability and the strength as much as possible.

Kerry: I call that normal. There’s no mother I know that doesn’t cry regularly, that doesn’t lose her shit regularly that doesn’t sometimes hate what she’s doing and at other times realize that it’s the most miraculous thing in the world to have children… I think anything short of that is not real.

Vera: Well, you know that Norma isn’t just crazy because she’s crazy. It’s important to realize and understand that Norma’s anger is caused by real and inescapable problems in her life. It’s not just misplaced anger. She comes with deep psychological trauma given her past and her childhood. I think Norma has always been looking for salvation. Every season we’d get a deeper understanding, and every season we saw we saw old traumas emerging, new traumas inflicted. But what I loved so much about the writing and the trajectory was that there was always a transcendence, and an emergence, and an awareness of the new self.

Vera: For me she was always a lesson in unconditional love. And getting to explore heights of righteousness that this woman possessed, and at the same time the depths of depravity of manipulation and tantrums.

Kerry: The freakouts– I feel people should do that more often. I think we hold so much in and I think if it were more acceptable to just lose it once in a while, I think it’s like a forging that happens during that. You release it from your body and you get stronger and you refocus. There was always growth in Norma. She was always changing. She grew and got stronger and stronger. And does she really freak out that much? Would you say that about a guy?

Vera: Right before this came my way I was listening to someone– an acting coach or teacher– talking about how difficult it is for female actors to get in touch with anger without hysteria entering into the equation… That would always resonate, and I would think her anger is her god-given super weapon.

Kerry: In the early scripts that was a concern– would she be likable, to the extent that people would be on the ride with her. But then you get Vera fucking Farmiga. Vera could play the worst villain in the world and you’d like her. We were home-free at that point.

Vera: I had to like her. I had to have compassion with her. She wanted out of this maze of this cruel life she’d experienced. It’s a really terrifying notion, this idea of confronting darkness in your child. There was so much to me that was lovable about her. There was much sass and humor. There’s a whole lot of goofball that balanced the darkness.

Kerry: Vera has such joy of life, and that’s a very seductive trait in a human being.

Vera wasn’t just intense, she was also hilarious. What role did Norma play?

Kerry: Sometimes people who are out of control emotionally–it’s just funny because it’s absurd, and then you step out of your own body and you think, this is crazy, what is happening in my own living room right now? That so framed my sensibility from such an early age, as well as the love of finding beauty in moments when there’s unhappiness going around.

What part of working on the show with Kerry has been unique?

Vera: I think for me that’s is the biggest highlight to work so closely for so many years with a female writer. That was unique and different for me and look at the results. Kerry knows how to meld the gorgeous pain of mortals with the ridiculous.

Kerry: It’s weird being a creative person. It’s like– there’s a fairy called The Red Shoes. It’s about a woman who puts on these red shows couldn’t stop dancing. And at first it’s the greatest thing in the world–she realizes she can do anything–and then she realizes she can never stop, and she bleeds to death out of her feet. You can’t help it.

Vera: I’m still heartbroken. The demise of Bates is a breakup. She’s been my lover for five years. I’m still in the recovery phase.

What It’s Like to Have Tina Fey As a Mentor

Chelsea Savage Survived a ‘Cult.’ Now She’s Running for Office.

Can We Finally, Officially, Say That Amber Heard and Elon Musk Are Dating?

Will We Abandon Women’s Rights in the Name of Progressive Politics?

I Was the Queen Bee: 3 High-School Bullies Describe Their Reigns of Terror

When Women Pursue Sex, Even Men Don’t Get It

Hey, Did You Know That French Presidential Candidate Emmanuel Macron Is Married to His High-School Teacher?

A Woman Used Her Boyfriend’s Balls As a Makeup Blender

Gigi Hadid’s Family Celebrated Her Birthday by Bringing Out the Baby Pictures

The One Unexpected Thing Zara and H&M Have in…

The Most Restrictive Anti-Abortion Bills Making Their Way Into State Legislatures Across the U.S.

The lawsuit says the university is discriminating against conservative speakers.

Jesse Williams and Aryn Drake-Lee Divorcing After Five Years of Marriage

The two have known each other for more than a decade.

The star and creator of Bates Motel on a character who’s “Medea meets Lucille Ball.”

Here’s Why Chobani Yogurt Is Suing Far-Right Radio Host Alex Jones

Alex Jones’s latest legal battle is against a yogurt company.

Serena Williams Responds to Tennis Player’s Racist Remark About Her Pregnancy

“This world has come so far and yet we have so much further to go.”

Kim Kardashian Didn’t Come Over Just to Stare at a Cake

She needs to show Khloé her “ex-box,” which contains at least two chicken-related items.

A new book commemorates the 50th anniversary of her MoMA exhibition with Lee Friedlander and Garry Winogrand.

What Were Those Patches Under Chris Pratt’s Eyes?

Tracey Wigfield on 30 Rock, her new sitcom Great News, and writing a character based on her mom.

Sheryl Sandberg’s Lean In Is Trying Really Hard Not to Be Political

Because, its president said, gender equality “transcends politics.”

The ‘Secret Menu’ Beauty Option You Don’t Know About

How to get the best concealer perfectly custom-matched to your skin.

“They love to shoot you up like a clay pigeon.”

French Presidential Candidate Emmanuel Macron Married His High-School Teacher

A fun little fact from the French presidential race.

I Boil This Timer for Absolutely Perfect Eggs

It changes color like a mood ring to tell you when they’re done.

4 Psychology Experts on Why Alex Jones Is Always Taking His Shirt Off

After it emerged that conspiracy theorist Alex Jones allegedly took his shirt off during family therapy, we got curious.

Ladies, Would You Carry Condoms If They Came in a Cute Travel Case?

Don’t you dare let anyone know you have sex.

This Nifty Tote Has Turned All My Dates Into Picnics

Its material is insulating and it’s got interlocking containers for your food.

The One Thing the French Get Right: Bras for Larger Boobs

Amber Rose’s Beauty Line Will Teach You How to Have Fun

A Woman Used Her Boyfriend’s Balls As a Makeup Blender

post to your social media account without your permission.

Please follow the instructions in the email within 48 hours to complete your registration.

Enter your email address or username and we’ll email instructions on how to reset your password.

This username or email is associated with a Facebook account.

We’ve sent you an email with instructions on how to reset your password.

Your username will appear next to your comments.

You already have an account registered under . You can link your Facebook account to your existing account.

Welcome! You are now a registered user of NYMag.com, TheCut.com, Vulture.com, ScienceOfUs.com and GrubStreet.com.

We\'re sorry. You must confirm your registration within 48 hours of submitting your registration request. Please register again.